Burial at St. Mary's, Haddington, E.L.

The burial register of St. Mary's Haddington has the following entry

JAMES FORSYTH was buried on 1st September 1842.
No age or occupation is given. He died of old age and was resident in Nungate.

[reference 3.17 (i.e. vol 3 page 17) entry 45 (ID 328)].
Searched by E. Collins, April, 2011

Re: Helen Scott Forsyth's death in 1860
Note from Mr. Collins: "The Burial Register for Haddington parish from 1858 (part) to around 1878 was lost in a fire, so is no longer available to look at. It is probable that she would have had an entry around 1860 in that Haddington burial register. Her Death Certificate would give her date of death. For a few years after 1855 they also gave where the person was buried, but I think that this stopped around 1861."

Burials at St. Mary's, Haddington, E.L.

T 99 [Information from E. Collins] [# 1834]

(Very tall upright grey obelisk gravestone with a small pointed top. Also on this top piece on the front is a dove bird. The gravestone has an obelisk, and two square bases, which rest on stone. The gravestone is near to a path.)
(obelisk – front)
[garland wreath]

Sacred
To the Memory of
JOHN COCHRANE
Dyer Haddington
Who died 20th August 1860
Aged 73.
His daughter
MARION
Who died 1st March 1835
Aged 4.
His son
THOMAS
Who died 15th Sep. 1868
Aged 27.
Also his wife
MARION FORSYTH
Died 27th February 1877
Aged 73 years.

# MARION COCHRANE (COCHREN), aged 6 years, was buried 5th March 1834, (gravestone gives 1835 and is probably not correct as the register is in correct date order with 1834 given). She died of Measles (Messels) and her residence was Haddington (Haddn). Reference 2.134 (i.e. vol 2 page 134) entry 32 (ID 4953). [She was thus a Child].

John Forsyth and Isabella Sinclair

I do not know how or if these Forsyths were related to our Forsyths of Penicuik, Mid-Lothian. It is possible that this man's father, John Sr., was a brother to our James Forsyth. The John Forsyth of the West Calder census is not proven to be the father of John of Penicuik.

1841 Census for West Calder, Mid-Lothian, Briechmill

FORSYTH, Alexr, 25, Farmer, b. Outside Census County
FORSYTH, Christian, 25, b. Outside Census County
FORSYTH, John, 60, b. Outside Census County
FORSYTH, Jean, 50, Outside Census County
FORSYTH, Alexr (Jnr), 9, Outside Census County
MATTHEWS, Elisabeth, 35, Female Servant, b. Midlothian

John Forsyth and Isabella Sinclair, daughter of James Sinclair and Martha Hartley of Penicuik, were married September 17 1818 in Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh (IGI). The 1841 census states that John was not born in Mid-lothian, but Isabella was.

Their first two known children were Martha (1821) and John 1823) baptised in Penicuik.

John Forsyth, Labourer in Penicuik and Isobel Sinclair his spouse had a child born 18 April 1821, baptised 29th named Martha - Witnesses John Forsyth, Sr. and Thomas Sinclair

John Forsyth, Labourer in Penicuik and Isobel Sinclair his spouse had a child born 15 Septmeber 1823, baptised 28th named John - Witnesses: Thomas Sinclair Thomas Muir

The above records are extracts from Penicuik Parish Registers

The 40 year old John Forsyth in the 1841 census who is married to Isabella Sinclair is probably the son of a John Forsyth, substantiated by the 1821 baptism of a child named Martha of John and his wife, Isabel Sinclair when one of the witnesses is a John Forsyth, Senior. Note that there is a 15 year old John Forsyth, an apprentice, living with Laings in 1841. He is probably a son of John and Isabella who was baptised in 1823 (above).

1841 Census - Penicuik -Midlothian Address: -
FORSYTH, John, M, 40, Ag. Lab, b. Outside County
FORSYTH, Isabella (Sinclair), F, 40, b.Midlothian
FORSYTH, Isabella, F, 15, Paper Mill, b. Midlothian
FORSYTH, Jane, F, 10, Paper Mill, b. Midlothian

1841 Census Place: Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Silver Burn Smithy
LAING, Andrew, M, 55, Wright J&M, b. Outside County
LAING, Jean, F, 55, b. Outside County (1841)
LAING, John, M, 23, Wright Journeyman, b. Midlothian
LAING, Elizabeth, F, 19, b. Midlothian
LAING, George, M, 12, b. Midlothian
STODDART, Robert, M, 20, Wright Journeyman, b. Outside County
THOMSON, James, M, 15, Wright Journeyman, b. Outside County
WHITE, Adam, M, 20,Wright Apprentice, b. Midlothian
FORSYTH, John, M, 15, Wright Apprentice, b. Midlothian
BAILEY, George, M, 15, Agr. Labourer, b. Midlothian
HISLOP, Margaret, F, 15, Servant, b. Midlothian *

1851 Census St Cuthbert's -Midlothian Civil Parish: St Cuthberts
Address: 2 St James's Place

FORSYTH, John, Head, 27, Journeyman Joiner, Born-Penicuik
FORSYTH, Robetina, Wife, 22, born- Edinburgh
FORSYTH, Elisabeth, Dau, 2, born- Edinburgh
FORSYTH, Isabella, Dau, 3w, born- Edinburgh
SHEARER, James, Lodger, 40, Trunk Umbrella Maker, b.Edinburgh
PEARSON, Hugh,Lodger, 23, Grocer's Assistant Shetland - Delting

Marriages of Children of John & Isabella Forsyth:
Isabella Forsyth = James Whyte, 14 Dec 1851 Penicuik
Jane Forsyth = Walter Easton 20 Feb 1857 Penicuik

Obituaries for Mary Forsyth - June, 1935

Mrs. John Forsyth
It was seventy years ago last January since Mrs. John Forsyth came with her husband and babies to Bracebridge. Labouriously they made their way by ox team through the unbroken forest to a homestead in Macaulay Township. There, the little family settled in the bush and by great perseverance and much hard work, made a home for themselves. There they raised a large family and there the husband died in July, 1908. Mrs. Forsyth, whose maiden name was Mary Dales, was born near Kettleby, King Township in 1840, daughter of Dianah Otherham and William Dales. In 1861 she married John Forsyth of Haddingtonshire, Scotland. Two daughters, Charlotte-Anne and Sarah-Jane, and a son, George, predeceased her. Those left are Diannah (Mrs. Crandell of Toronto); John Thomas of Cochrane; William Charles of Saskatchewan; James Cockburn of Utterson; Robert Scott of Port Sydney; Mary (Mrs. Harry Mortimer of Mortimer's Point); Elizabeth (Mrs. William James of New Liskeard; Clara (Mrs. Thomas Peacock of Bracebridge) and Jessie (Mrs. George Peacock of Macaulay).

Mrs. Forsyth passed away at the home of her daughter in New Liskeard. Though ninety-five years old, she enjoyed good health until four months ago. After the service at the home of her daughter in New Liskeard, the body was brought to the home of her daughter, Mrs. Thomas Peacock, of Bracebridge. Burial took place at the family burial ground in Falkenburg on Saturday, June 29th. Rev. P.W. MacInnes, Pastor of Knox Presbyterian Church conducted funeral services. Mrs. Forsyth was a life long member of the Presbyterian Church. Thus passes another of the fine old people who contributed so much to the upbuilding of Muskoka.

Mrs. Mary Forsyth

In our last issue, we made the announcement of the death of Mrs. Mary Forsyth in her ninety-fifth year, who passed away at the home of her daughter, Mrs. William James, Grill St., New Liskeard, the remains being taken out last Friday night for interrment at the Falkenburg Cemetery. The late Mrs. Forsyth's maiden name was Mary Dales. She was the daughter of Diannah Otherham and William Dales and was born in 1840 in the township of King near Kettleby. In 1861 she married the late John Forsyth of Darlington (sic) Parish in Haddingtonshire, Scotland and continued to live in King Township until 1865. The young couple then left with team and oxen for Bracebridge, Muskoka which was a town in the making and set in a section which was a dense forest. At that time, there was no train into Muskoka and the roads were in many places almost impassible. In the township of Macaulay they settled on a homestead and with great courage proceeded to make a home for themselves and their family of young children. They continued to live in Muskoka for many years and earned the friendship and respect of a very wide circle of friends. The deceased was predeceased by her husband who passed away on July 2, 1908. Two daughters, Charlotte Anne and Sarah Jane, and one son, George, also predeceased their mother. Those of the immediate family who survive their aged mother: Diannah (Mrs. A. Crandall, Toronto); John T. of Cochrane; Wiliam C. of Saskatchewan; James C. of Utterson; William S. of Port Sydney; Mary A., Mrs. Harry Mortimer of Mortimer's Point, Muskoka Lake; Elizabeth, Mrs. William James of New Liskeard; Clara, Mrs Thomas Peacock of Bracebridge; and Jessie, Mrs. George Peacock of Macaulay Township. There are 52 grandchildren, and over one hundred great grandchildren and many great, great grandchildren. Up until about four months ago, the deceased enjoyed almost perfect health and was in her usually bright spirits, up until almost the last. Following the service conducted at her daughter's home in New Liskeard, the remains were taken to Bracebridge. Mrs. James accompanied them to the home of her daughter, Mrs. Thomas Peacock. Here, Rev. P.W. MacInnis conducted services at 2:30 pm after which interment took place by the side of her departed husband in the Falkenburg Cemetery. A large number of friends gathered to pay their last respects to the memory of their former friend and neighbour.

Death of Mary Forsyth - June 27, 1935

Death Certificate:

District of Temiskaming,

Township of Dymond

Date: June 27, 1935

Length of stay in place where death occured: 15 years

Female - English - Widowed - retired

Birthplace: Twp of Cane [King], Ontario

Date of Birth: Septmeber 22, 1840

Age at death: 94 years, 9 months, 5 days

Husband: John Forsyth

Father's Name: Dales, born England

Mother's Name: Diana Otheram, born England

Informant: Mrs. W. J. James, New Liskeard, daughter

Burial: Bracebridge, June 28, 1935

Undertaker: E.O. Perrin (?)

Doctor attended: June 22 - June 26, 1935

Patient last seen: June 26, 1935

Immediate cause of death: arteriosclerotic heart disease due to general arteriosclerosis

Other morbidity: cerebral arteriosclerosis

Surgery: No

Signed Robert Nelson, New Liskeard, June 27, 1935

Counties of Scotland - Pre 1974

CLICK on map to enlarge it.

Mention of Fairliehope in a Rebecca West Letter of 1910

An internet photo of the Fairliehope area today.

Rebecca West was an English author, journalist, literary critic and travel writer. Click on the title above for information about a book of her letters. Quoting from this website: "By April 1910, West had made her move to London, where she settled with her mother and sisters in the house they named Fairliehope." It seems that William Morris, a very famous designer of the Arts and Crafts movement, had popularized the name 'Fairliehope' after a farm in the Pentlands. West named her home in London 'Fairliehope, but in her walk to West Linton mentioned in the letter below, she doesn't say that they saw the farm. Our ancestor, James Forsyth, was a farmer 'of Farleyhope' in 1808, a hundred years earlier, and would have lived in a/the cottage on the Fairliehope farm.

To: Letitia Fairfield 24 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh 20 March 1910 My dear Cow, We are so sorry to hear that you are run down again! It will be good to be nearer you so that we can inspect you at more frequent intervals. It's very unfair that a fine Cow like you should be weakly. * I expect you have heard as much as we have about Fairliehope Cottage—I hope you like the name. If you don't you ought to be ashamed of yourself, because it is a most beautiful William Morris word and the name of a wonderful old farm on the Pentlands looking over towards the Clyde. Podge [Winifred Macleod] is planning to cut a garden—herbaceous borders, rosepoles, and such like. Mother's only stipulation is that there must be wallflowers, and I demand a lilac bush and almond tree, so she has a free hand. ............ * Yesterday Flora, Ada and I went a 15 mile walk. We trained to Balerno, walked along the Old Lanark Road and crossed over Carnwath Moor by Harperrig Reservoir, and climbed up to the pass between the East & West Cairn Hills. This is the Cauldstaneslap—the one in The Weir of Hermiston—a most awful wilderness of bare moors—1300 ft above sea level. We had to go rather out of our way, as we couldn't walk in the snow, which lay pretty thick on the mountains. The hills are about 2,000 ft, and in wild shapes. We walked for six miles without seeing a house, and in the whole 15 miles only met 2 people. When we got to West Linton—which is a lovely place, in the prettiest part of Peebleshire,—we found that the benevolent railway company insisted on us leaving at 4.45 or not at all till 8 o'clock. So—as the station is 2 miles from the village—we couldn't have tea. For 1/6 the N. B. R. gave us 2 hrs of travelling including half an hour's repose at a station, dropped, for some reason, beside a couple of cottages. No stuffing anywhere, and we'd wolfed all our sandwiches among the mountains! The dear child did wonders when it returned to the bosom of its fambly [sic]! The bother is that my left leg is quite lame today. I don't know if its possible, but I feel as if that burn had affected it. It's been queer ever since. ............. Your loving Baby West, R., MSS

Walter and Agnes Forsyth of Penicuik

Click on the title of this post to see the Spittal Farmhouse close to Penicuik. I don't know if this is the farmhouse that Walter Forsyth lived in, but it is the general area.

A Walter Forsyth (perhaps the brother of our James Forsyth [Helen Scott], but most certainly a relative of James) married Agnes Ferguson Dec 12, 1812 in Penicuik. Agnes was probably the daughter of William Ferguson and Jean Buyer baptised September 23, 1778 in Biggar, Lanark. This town is not far from Penicuik and Agnes provided this town as her place of birth in the 1851 census, as shown below.

Three daughters were baptised in Penicuik: Jean, 25 August, 1814; Marion, August 16, 1816; and Joan, December 5, 1818. Alison, born about 1826, is with her father and sister, Joanna, in the 1841 census below.

A Thomas BROWN married Jean Forsyth on July 20, 1832 in Penicuik, Midlothian. Marion died in 1838 at 22 years of age and is buried the Penicuik churchyard. Alison married William ROBB in 1841, and Joan(na) married a Thomas MURRAY in 1849.

The 40 year old John Forsyth in the 1841 census who is married to Isabella Sinclair is probably the son of a John Forsyth, substantiated by an 1821 baptism of a child of John and his wife, Isabel Sinclair when one of the witnesses is a John Forsyth, Senior. Note that there is a 15 year old John Forsyth, an apprentice, living with Laings in 1841. He is probably a son of John and Isabella.

The facts which seem to suggest that James and Walter were brothers are:
i) Walter witnessed the baptism of a son of James in Penicuik
ii) both had a second daughter named Marion...perhaps their mother's name *

Therefore, there appears to be two Forsyth brothers living in the Penicuik area in the first decade of the 19th century. Walter lives there until his death, but James moves to East Lothian. There might have been a third brother, John, in the area, but there was definitely a John, son of John Sr.
1841 Census - Penicuik -Midlothian Address: -
FORSYTH, John, M, 40, Ag. Lab, b. Outside County
FORSYTH, Isabella (Sinclair), F, 40, b.Midlothian
FORSYTH, Isabella, F, 15, Paper Mill, b. Midlothian
FORSYTH, Jane, F, 10, Paper Mill, b. Midlothian

1841 Census -Place: Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Spittal Farm
FORSYTH, Walter, M, 70, Farmer, b. Outside County
FORSYTH, Joanna, F, 20, b. Midlothian FORSYTH, Alison, F, 15, b.Midlothian BROWN, David, M, 8, b. Midlothian SOMERVILLE, Mary, F, 18, Servant, b. Outside County
SOMERVILLE, Isabella, F, 15, Servant, b. OutsideCounty *

1841 Census Place: Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Monks Burn Cottage
BROWN, Thomas, M, 34, Wright, b. Outside County
BROWN, Jean, F, 25, b. Midlothian BROWN, Walter, M, 6, b. Midlothian
FORSYTH, Agnes, F, 62, Independent, b. Outside County
FORSYTH, Agnes, F, 3, b. Midlothian ** see 1851 below- Agnes Brown
ROBB, John, M, 18, Wright Journeyman, b. Outside County
HURT, James, M, 15, Wright Apprentice, b. Outside County
MASON, Mary, F, 15, Servant, b.Outside County

1841 Census Place: Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Silver Burn Smithy
LAING, Andrew, M, 55, Wright J&M, b. Outside County
LAING, Jean, F, 55, b. Outside County (1841)
LAING, John, M, 23, Wright Journeyman, b. Midlothian
LAING, Elizabeth, F, 19, b. Midlothian
LAING, George, M, 12, b. Midlothian
STODDART, Robert, M, 20, Wright Journeyman, b. Outside County
THOMSON, James, M, 15, Wright Journeyman, b. Outside County
WHITE, Adam, M, 20,Wright Apprentice, b. Midlothian
FORSYTH, John, M, 15, Wright Apprentice, b. Midlothian
BAILEY, George, M, 15, Agr. Labourer, b. Midlothian
HISLOP, Margaret, F, 15, Servant, b. Midlothian *

1851 Census Place: Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Nether Friarton
FORSYTH, Agnes, Head, Wid, F, 73, Annuitant, b. Lanarkshire - Biggar
BROWN, David, Grnson, Unm. M, 18, Wright, Midlothian - Penicuik [In 1851, Agnes is the only Forsyth surname in Penicuik] *

1851 Census Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Monk B(urn) Cottage
BROWN, Thomas, Head, Mar. M, 45, Joiner & Cart Wright Emp 2 Men, b. Lanarkshire - Dunsyre
BROWN, Jean, M, F, 36, Wife, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Walter, Son, Unm, M, 16, Cart Wright, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Agnes, Dau, F, 13, Scholar, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Joanna, Dau, F, 7, Scholar, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Thomas, Son, M, 4, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Jean, Servnt, Unm, F, 22, House Servant, b. Peebles-shire * *

Marriages of Children of Walter and Agnes Forsyth:
Jean Forsyth=Thomas Brown 20 July 1832 Penicuik
Alison Forsyth=Wm Robb 21 Dec 1841 Penicuik (at 9 Mile Burn in 1851)
Joanna Forsyth=Thomas Murray 17 July 1849 Penicuik

Marriages of Children of John &
Isabella Forsyth:
Isabella Forsyth = James Whyte, 14 Dec 1851 Penicuik
Jane Forsyth = Walter Easton 20 Feb 1857 Penicuik

Burials in Penicuik Churchyard:
1838, Nov. 16 - Marion Forsyth, dau of Walter, Farmer of Spittal, age 22 years

1849, Jan. 27 - Walter Forsyth, Farmer, Spitthall, age 80 years

Map of the Pentland Hills

PENTLAND HILLS

This map doesn't enlarge very clearly. If you click on the title, you can find the map on the website it was borrowed from. Penicuik is on the bottom edge just to the left of the top of the elevation key. Fairliehope is close to the river just above the purple dot at the lowest portion of the map. There appears to be a Spittal Hill above Fairliehope and right of a lake. James and Helen Forsyth lived at Farleyhope in 1808 and a Walter Forsyth lived on the Spittal Farm in the 1841 census for Penicuik.

Looking for parents of James Forsyth, died 1842

The three eldest sons of James Forsyth and Helen Scott were John, Robert and James. According to the traditional naming pattern, John would have been the father of James; Robert, the father of Helen; and James named after himself, the father of the child.

The witnesses at the baptism of John Forsyth in 1806 were Robert Scott and John Forsyth, perhaps the two grandfathers of the child. Of course, these men might have been brothers of James and Helen. However, it is a good clue for searching for the parents of James and Helen.

In the 1808 baptism of the son, Robert Forsyth, the witnesses are Robert Scott again and Alexander Davidson. In 1811, the witnesses are John Thomson and Walter Forsyth.

In the 1841 census for Scotland we find:
*
FORSYTH, James, Male, 70, Shepherd of Haddington, born E. Lothain (not correct), Address: Hardgate Street, Haddington (East Lothian)
*
FORSYTH, Walter, Male, 70, Farmer, born Outside Midlothian, Address: Spittal Farm, Penicuik
*
FORSYTH, John, M, 60, born outside Midlothian
FORSYTH, Jean, F, 50 born outside Midlothian
(Living with 25 year old married son, Alexander, farmer)
Address: Briechmill, West Calder -Midlothian

Calder is reported as the place of death of our James Forsyth. There are three Calders, but they are all within miles of each other south of Edinburgh.

This means we could be looking for a family headed by a John Forsyth
with two elder sons named Walter and James and a younger son named John.
The sons were not born in Midlothian or East Lothian and perhaps in SELKIRK or PEEBLES.

John Forsyth

Parish Registers of Penicuik Parish, Midlothian:
"Forsyth, James Residenter (?) in Pennycuik and Helen Scott his spouse had a child born 3 November 1806 and baptized 17th named JOHN
Witnesses: John Forsyth and Robert Scott"

The three eldest sons of James Forsyth and Helen Scott were John, Robert and James. According to the traditional naming pattern, John would have been the father of James; Robert, the father of Helen; and James named after himself, the father of the child. Of course, these names might have been the names of brothers of James and Helen. However, this is a good clue for searching for the parents of James and Helen.

Tracing Movements of James and Helen Forsyth

Marion Forsyth (Mrs. John Cochrane) was the second daughter of James and Helen Forsyth and was born about 1803. In the 1861 census, Marian Forsyth Cochrane gave her birthplace as West Linton, Midlothian. (In an earlier census, she said her birthplace was Pennycuik). West Linton now appears to be in Peebleshire

Penicuik Parish, 1806 -"Forsyth, James Residenter (?) in Pennycuik and Helen Scott his spouse had a child born 3 November 1806 and baptized 17th named JOHN Witnesses: John Forsyth and Robert Scott"

Pencuik Parish, 1808 - 'Forsyth, James, Farmer of Farleyhope, Parish of Linton and Helen Scott his spouse had a child born the 29th of August 1808 and baptized 28th named ROBERT Witnesses- Robert Scott and Alexander Davidson'

Penicuik Parish, 1811 - "Forsyth, James and Helen Scott from the Parish of Lasswade had a child born the 15th of March, 1811 and baptized the 20th /29th (?) named JAMES Witnesses: John Thomson and Walter Forsyth