Death of Mary Forsyth - June 27, 1935

Death Certificate:

District of Temiskaming,

Township of Dymond

Date: June 27, 1935

Length of stay in place where death occured: 15 years

Female - English - Widowed - retired

Birthplace: Twp of Cane [King], Ontario

Date of Birth: Septmeber 22, 1840

Age at death: 94 years, 9 months, 5 days

Husband: John Forsyth

Father's Name: Dales, born England

Mother's Name: Diana Otheram, born England

Informant: Mrs. W. J. James, New Liskeard, daughter

Burial: Bracebridge, June 28, 1935

Undertaker: E.O. Perrin (?)

Doctor attended: June 22 - June 26, 1935

Patient last seen: June 26, 1935

Immediate cause of death: arteriosclerotic heart disease due to general arteriosclerosis

Other morbidity: cerebral arteriosclerosis

Surgery: No

Signed Robert Nelson, New Liskeard, June 27, 1935

Counties of Scotland - Pre 1974

CLICK on map to enlarge it.

Mention of Fairliehope in a Rebecca West Letter of 1910

An internet photo of the Fairliehope area today.

Rebecca West was an English author, journalist, literary critic and travel writer. Click on the title above for information about a book of her letters. Quoting from this website: "By April 1910, West had made her move to London, where she settled with her mother and sisters in the house they named Fairliehope." It seems that William Morris, a very famous designer of the Arts and Crafts movement, had popularized the name 'Fairliehope' after a farm in the Pentlands. West named her home in London 'Fairliehope, but in her walk to West Linton mentioned in the letter below, she doesn't say that they saw the farm. Our ancestor, James Forsyth, was a farmer 'of Farleyhope' in 1808, a hundred years earlier, and would have lived in a/the cottage on the Fairliehope farm.

To: Letitia Fairfield 24 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh 20 March 1910 My dear Cow, We are so sorry to hear that you are run down again! It will be good to be nearer you so that we can inspect you at more frequent intervals. It's very unfair that a fine Cow like you should be weakly. * I expect you have heard as much as we have about Fairliehope Cottage—I hope you like the name. If you don't you ought to be ashamed of yourself, because it is a most beautiful William Morris word and the name of a wonderful old farm on the Pentlands looking over towards the Clyde. Podge [Winifred Macleod] is planning to cut a garden—herbaceous borders, rosepoles, and such like. Mother's only stipulation is that there must be wallflowers, and I demand a lilac bush and almond tree, so she has a free hand. ............ * Yesterday Flora, Ada and I went a 15 mile walk. We trained to Balerno, walked along the Old Lanark Road and crossed over Carnwath Moor by Harperrig Reservoir, and climbed up to the pass between the East & West Cairn Hills. This is the Cauldstaneslap—the one in The Weir of Hermiston—a most awful wilderness of bare moors—1300 ft above sea level. We had to go rather out of our way, as we couldn't walk in the snow, which lay pretty thick on the mountains. The hills are about 2,000 ft, and in wild shapes. We walked for six miles without seeing a house, and in the whole 15 miles only met 2 people. When we got to West Linton—which is a lovely place, in the prettiest part of Peebleshire,—we found that the benevolent railway company insisted on us leaving at 4.45 or not at all till 8 o'clock. So—as the station is 2 miles from the village—we couldn't have tea. For 1/6 the N. B. R. gave us 2 hrs of travelling including half an hour's repose at a station, dropped, for some reason, beside a couple of cottages. No stuffing anywhere, and we'd wolfed all our sandwiches among the mountains! The dear child did wonders when it returned to the bosom of its fambly [sic]! The bother is that my left leg is quite lame today. I don't know if its possible, but I feel as if that burn had affected it. It's been queer ever since. ............. Your loving Baby West, R., MSS

Walter and Agnes Forsyth of Penicuik

Click on the title of this post to see the Spittal Farmhouse close to Penicuik. I don't know if this is the farmhouse that Walter Forsyth lived in, but it is the general area.

A Walter Forsyth (perhaps the brother of our James Forsyth [Helen Scott], but most certainly a relative of James) married Agnes Ferguson Dec 12, 1812 in Penicuik. Agnes was probably the daughter of William Ferguson and Jean Buyer baptised September 23, 1778 in Biggar, Lanark. This town is not far from Penicuik and Agnes provided this town as her place of birth in the 1851 census, as shown below.

Three daughters were baptised in Penicuik: Jean, 25 August, 1814; Marion, August 16, 1816; and Joan, December 5, 1818. Alison, born about 1826, is with her father and sister, Joanna, in the 1841 census below.

A Thomas BROWN married Jean Forsyth on July 20, 1832 in Penicuik, Midlothian. Marion died in 1838 at 22 years of age and is buried the Penicuik churchyard. Alison married William ROBB in 1841, and Joan(na) married a Thomas MURRAY in 1849.

The 40 year old John Forsyth in the 1841 census who is married to Isabella Sinclair is probably the son of a John Forsyth, substantiated by an 1821 baptism of a child of John and his wife, Isabel Sinclair when one of the witnesses is a John Forsyth, Senior. Note that there is a 15 year old John Forsyth, an apprentice, living with Laings in 1841. He is probably a son of John and Isabella.

The facts which seem to suggest that James and Walter were brothers are:
i) Walter witnessed the baptism of a son of James in Penicuik
ii) both had a second daughter named Marion...perhaps their mother's name *

Therefore, there appears to be two Forsyth brothers living in the Penicuik area in the first decade of the 19th century. Walter lives there until his death, but James moves to East Lothian. There might have been a third brother, John, in the area, but there was definitely a John, son of John Sr.
1841 Census - Penicuik -Midlothian Address: -
FORSYTH, John, M, 40, Ag. Lab, b. Outside County
FORSYTH, Isabella (Sinclair), F, 40, b.Midlothian
FORSYTH, Isabella, F, 15, Paper Mill, b. Midlothian
FORSYTH, Jane, F, 10, Paper Mill, b. Midlothian

1841 Census -Place: Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Spittal Farm
FORSYTH, Walter, M, 70, Farmer, b. Outside County
FORSYTH, Joanna, F, 20, b. Midlothian FORSYTH, Alison, F, 15, b.Midlothian BROWN, David, M, 8, b. Midlothian SOMERVILLE, Mary, F, 18, Servant, b. Outside County
SOMERVILLE, Isabella, F, 15, Servant, b. OutsideCounty *

1841 Census Place: Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Monks Burn Cottage
BROWN, Thomas, M, 34, Wright, b. Outside County
BROWN, Jean, F, 25, b. Midlothian BROWN, Walter, M, 6, b. Midlothian
FORSYTH, Agnes, F, 62, Independent, b. Outside County
FORSYTH, Agnes, F, 3, b. Midlothian ** see 1851 below- Agnes Brown
ROBB, John, M, 18, Wright Journeyman, b. Outside County
HURT, James, M, 15, Wright Apprentice, b. Outside County
MASON, Mary, F, 15, Servant, b.Outside County

1841 Census Place: Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Silver Burn Smithy
LAING, Andrew, M, 55, Wright J&M, b. Outside County
LAING, Jean, F, 55, b. Outside County (1841)
LAING, John, M, 23, Wright Journeyman, b. Midlothian
LAING, Elizabeth, F, 19, b. Midlothian
LAING, George, M, 12, b. Midlothian
STODDART, Robert, M, 20, Wright Journeyman, b. Outside County
THOMSON, James, M, 15, Wright Journeyman, b. Outside County
WHITE, Adam, M, 20,Wright Apprentice, b. Midlothian
FORSYTH, John, M, 15, Wright Apprentice, b. Midlothian
BAILEY, George, M, 15, Agr. Labourer, b. Midlothian
HISLOP, Margaret, F, 15, Servant, b. Midlothian *

1851 Census Place: Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Nether Friarton
FORSYTH, Agnes, Head, Wid, F, 73, Annuitant, b. Lanarkshire - Biggar
BROWN, David, Grnson, Unm. M, 18, Wright, Midlothian - Penicuik [In 1851, Agnes is the only Forsyth surname in Penicuik] *

1851 Census Penicuik -Midlothian Address: Monk B(urn) Cottage
BROWN, Thomas, Head, Mar. M, 45, Joiner & Cart Wright Emp 2 Men, b. Lanarkshire - Dunsyre
BROWN, Jean, M, F, 36, Wife, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Walter, Son, Unm, M, 16, Cart Wright, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Agnes, Dau, F, 13, Scholar, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Joanna, Dau, F, 7, Scholar, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Thomas, Son, M, 4, b. Midlothian - Penicuik
BROWN, Jean, Servnt, Unm, F, 22, House Servant, b. Peebles-shire * *

Marriages of Children of Walter and Agnes Forsyth:
Jean Forsyth=Thomas Brown 20 July 1832 Penicuik
Alison Forsyth=Wm Robb 21 Dec 1841 Penicuik (at 9 Mile Burn in 1851)
Joanna Forsyth=Thomas Murray 17 July 1849 Penicuik

Marriages of Children of John &
Isabella Forsyth:
Isabella Forsyth = James Whyte, 14 Dec 1851 Penicuik
Jane Forsyth = Walter Easton 20 Feb 1857 Penicuik

Burials in Penicuik Churchyard:
1838, Nov. 16 - Marion Forsyth, dau of Walter, Farmer of Spittal, age 22 years

1849, Jan. 27 - Walter Forsyth, Farmer, Spitthall, age 80 years

Map of the Pentland Hills

PENTLAND HILLS

This map doesn't enlarge very clearly. If you click on the title, you can find the map on the website it was borrowed from. Penicuik is on the bottom edge just to the left of the top of the elevation key. Fairliehope is close to the river just above the purple dot at the lowest portion of the map. There appears to be a Spittal Hill above Fairliehope and right of a lake. James and Helen Forsyth lived at Farleyhope in 1808 and a Walter Forsyth lived on the Spittal Farm in the 1841 census for Penicuik.

Looking for parents of James Forsyth, died 1842

The three eldest sons of James Forsyth and Helen Scott were John, Robert and James. According to the traditional naming pattern, John would have been the father of James; Robert, the father of Helen; and James named after himself, the father of the child.

The witnesses at the baptism of John Forsyth in 1806 were Robert Scott and John Forsyth, perhaps the two grandfathers of the child. Of course, these men might have been brothers of James and Helen. However, it is a good clue for searching for the parents of James and Helen.

In the 1808 baptism of the son, Robert Forsyth, the witnesses are Robert Scott again and Alexander Davidson. In 1811, the witnesses are John Thomson and Walter Forsyth.

In the 1841 census for Scotland we find:
*
FORSYTH, James, Male, 70, Shepherd of Haddington, born E. Lothain (not correct), Address: Hardgate Street, Haddington (East Lothian)
*
FORSYTH, Walter, Male, 70, Farmer, born Outside Midlothian, Address: Spittal Farm, Penicuik
*
FORSYTH, John, M, 60, born outside Midlothian
FORSYTH, Jean, F, 50 born outside Midlothian
(Living with 25 year old married son, Alexander, farmer)
Address: Briechmill, West Calder -Midlothian

Calder is reported as the place of death of our James Forsyth. There are three Calders, but they are all within miles of each other south of Edinburgh.

This means we could be looking for a family headed by a John Forsyth
with two elder sons named Walter and James and a younger son named John.
The sons were not born in Midlothian or East Lothian and perhaps in SELKIRK or PEEBLES.

John Forsyth

Parish Registers of Penicuik Parish, Midlothian:
"Forsyth, James Residenter (?) in Pennycuik and Helen Scott his spouse had a child born 3 November 1806 and baptized 17th named JOHN
Witnesses: John Forsyth and Robert Scott"

The three eldest sons of James Forsyth and Helen Scott were John, Robert and James. According to the traditional naming pattern, John would have been the father of James; Robert, the father of Helen; and James named after himself, the father of the child. Of course, these names might have been the names of brothers of James and Helen. However, this is a good clue for searching for the parents of James and Helen.

Tracing Movements of James and Helen Forsyth

Marion Forsyth (Mrs. John Cochrane) was the second daughter of James and Helen Forsyth and was born about 1803. In the 1861 census, Marian Forsyth Cochrane gave her birthplace as West Linton, Midlothian. (In an earlier census, she said her birthplace was Pennycuik). West Linton now appears to be in Peebleshire

Penicuik Parish, 1806 -"Forsyth, James Residenter (?) in Pennycuik and Helen Scott his spouse had a child born 3 November 1806 and baptized 17th named JOHN Witnesses: John Forsyth and Robert Scott"

Pencuik Parish, 1808 - 'Forsyth, James, Farmer of Farleyhope, Parish of Linton and Helen Scott his spouse had a child born the 29th of August 1808 and baptized 28th named ROBERT Witnesses- Robert Scott and Alexander Davidson'

Penicuik Parish, 1811 - "Forsyth, James and Helen Scott from the Parish of Lasswade had a child born the 15th of March, 1811 and baptized the 20th /29th (?) named JAMES Witnesses: John Thomson and Walter Forsyth

Marriage of James Forsyth and Helen Scott 1801

Map showing Penicuik, Mid-lothian and Yarrow, Selkirk, the parishes of James Forsyth and Helen Scott

Parish of Penicuik, Mid-Lothian - "Forsyth, James, Tenant in Spittal of this parish and Jean Scott of the Parish of Yarrow gave in their names for Proclamtion in Order to Marriage (sic), January, 1801 and were married the 20th of February, 1801."

The above record is from the Parish of Yarrow, Selkirk which was the home of Helen Scott. James Forsyth is reported as 'in Pennycuik Parish.' The column on the right is the fee paid on January 25 for the marriage. Note the burial of Robert Scott of Catslackburn, Yarrow at the top. This could be the father of Helen.

The Children of James Forsyth & Helen Scott

Christian Forsyth 1801-1881
b. Penicuik, Mid-Lothian (no parish record of baptism)
Married: Apr 30/May 1, 1825, Dirleton
= Francis Hewat, Blacksmith
of Nisbet Loanhead, East Lothian
Died: April 21, 1881 @ 80
Buried: Pentcaitland Cemetery

Marion Forsyth 1804-1877
b. West Linton, (now Peebleshire) Mid-Lothian (Source 1861 census)
(No parish record of baptism found to date)
M. 1821, Edinburgh
= John Cochrane, Dyer of Haddington, East Lothian
Died: February 27, 1877
Buried: St. Mary's Haddington, East Linton

John Forsyth 1806-1884
Born: November 3, 1806, Penicuik, Mid-Lothian
Baptised: November 17, 1806 in Penicuik
Parents residents of Penicuik
Witnesses to Baptism: John Forsyth and Robert Scott
M. 1828, Dirleton
=Charlotte Cockburn
of Dirleton and Dunbar, East Lothian
Died: November 7, 1884
Buried: Falkenburg Union Cemetery, Muskoka, Ontario

Robert Forsyth 1808-1900
b. 29th of August, 1808, Farley Hope, Linton, Peebles
Baptised: September 28, 1808, Penicuik, Mid-Lothian
Parents were residents of Farley Hope, Parish of Linton, Peebleshire
Father - Farmer
Witnesses to Baptism: Robert Scott and Alexander Davidson
(Baker? oral history)
=

James Forsyth 1811-1890
Born: March 15, 1811 - Lasswade, Mid-Lothian
Baptised: March 20, 1811, in Penicuik, Mid-Lothian
Parents of Lasswade at time of baptism
Witnesses: John Thomson and Walter Forsyth
M. before 1836, Edinburgh
= Jane Fraser, dau of Wm
In St. Cuthberts, Edinburgh in 1851

Helen Forsyth
b. abt 1814 b. Dirleton, East-Lothian (no baptism found)
M. 1846, Aberlady, E.L.
=Peter Wallace, Labourer

Thomas Forsyth 1818 -
b. Dirleton, East Lothian, 22 May 1818
Railway Guard-Berwick to Edinburgh
=Ann (maybe Ann Cameron of Canongate, Edinburgh)

Janet/'Jessie' Forsyth 1822 -
b. Dirleton, East Lothian -13 July 1822, Baptised Dirleton
in Roxburghshire with nephew in 1861
(Australia?)